Oyster #94: John Waters
In Oyster Issue #94 Ariane Halls caught up with the iconic and controversial John Waters. Here is an excerpt of our exclusive interview where they chat about Baltimore, lovely anarchists and Showgirls:
John Waters is one of the most fascinating and charmingly controversial people in the world. He is the man who filmed a drag queen eating dog shit; who once said, “Sometimes I wish I was a woman, just so that I could get an abortion;” who, upon meeting Justin Bieber, asked him to autograph a bottle of Proactiv. Thankfully he lived up to my every expectation — that is, he loves Showgirls as much as I do.
Ariane Halls: How do you think Australians differ from Americans?
John Waters: I don’t think they’re so different from people in Baltimore, who have a great sense of humour about themselves and also aren’t impressed easily and don’t care that much about being trendy, and sometimes exaggerate and celebrate what other people try to hide about their culture [laughs]. So I think my friends are actually very similar [to Australians].
Your films have formed a sort of extended love letter to Baltimore. How would you describe the city to someone who has never been there before?
Well, it’s a working-class city — a blue-collar city. But the thing that’s amazing about it is that if you ever say, “I’m moving to New York,” someone in Baltimore would say, “Why?!” It’s a city of neighbourhoods; it’s the only city where, when you ask somebody what school you went to, you mean high school, not college. It seems like everyone thinks they’re normal, but I think they’re actually insane. I also live in New York, where most of my friends probably think they’re insane, but they’re actually kind of normal. So, I think it’s a city that’s eccentric but … they don’t even realise.
You’ve always been unapologetically strange and especially non-judgmental of others. Why do you think you’re like that? Do you think you’re a product of Baltimore, or of your parents, or…
Well, I guess everyone is a product of their parents in some way. I mean, although my parents were kind of forced to be more open-minded by having me as a child [laughs] … They were fairly conservative, but they never taught me to be judgmental. I think that’s my politics: you mind your own business until you know the whole story, and even then you never know the whole story — it’s quite complicated, why people turn out the way they do. I do believe that if you’re 60 years old and angry, you’re an asshole, but when you’re 20 years old and angry, it’s sexy.
Speaking of being conservative, Pink Flamingos is still banned in Australia.
In England, it’s cut — I mean, it has never come out in full. Is it totally banned?
No, I think you can play the version without the fellatio scene. And maybe the bit with the chicken…
Well, you know, the fellatio scene is pretty harmless … I think it’s kind of an innocent scene. You know, weirdly enough, it’s a scene that gets played on the television in America — uncut, which is amazing to me … And in England, I think, they cut that scene and the eating shit scene. To me, the eating shit scene was kind of Jackass. If I hadn’t done it, Johnny Knoxville would have done it. I think that was pretty harmless too — it was just a publicity-stunt joke about what you could and couldn’t do in the year Deep Throat became legal in America; that was the year we made Pink Flamingos.
How did you come to cast Johnny Knoxville in A Dirty Shame?
Well, Johnny Knoxville is a good actor, I think; he’s a good comedian. I’m a big fan of the Jackass movies; I think they have an amazing spirit of anarchy. Here is a movie that — at least in America, and I bet it’s the same in Australia — is very, very popular with blue-collar dads and their sons; they go watch it together, and it’s always male nudity and people putting things up their ass, you know? And I think, “How does this happen and they aren’t upset about it?” I think it’s really amazing! And also what’s amazing is those movies make a huge amount of money. I’m so happy for Johnny; it couldn’t happen to a nicer man.
Yeah, especially because you see him doing all that stuff on the show and I don’t know if people realise what a lovely person he is…
He’s great; he’s a dear friend, you know. I’m hoping he’s starring in my next movie too. He’s really a good guy and he deserves every bit of success he’s had. What an original idea — for an anarchist! Really, that’s what he is: an anarchist.
A lovely anarchist.
Yes, a very polite anarchist. And usually anarchists aren’t that handsome. They always have bad haircuts and BO.
So what is your next film?
Openly it’s called Fruitcake and it’s this terribly wonderful children’s Christmas adventure. And I’ve just had a meeting about it… We’ll see; it’s hard to get a movie made these days in the independent film world. They want everything to cost ten cents, like how I started out.
Your book, Role Models, is about the people that you look up to. Are there any people that you look down on?
There are, but my specialty in my career is never saying negative things about people — it’s praising people that other people don’t like; that’s more my beat … It basically wouldn’t be worth writing a book about; people you don’t like, you just ignore. I’d say the greatest success that I’ve had in my life is that I never have to be around assholes anymore; that’s better than rich. And rich just means you can just afford any book you want without looking at the price. That, to me, is rich.
Have you ever been offered a script from another writer to direct?
I have, but I never even read them … My lawyer won’t let me read unsolicited scripts because they may sue you for stealing their ideas. I would never want to direct a movie that I didn’t write. I guess I could have made a lot of money at certain points in my life, but I don’t know how to do that, really. To me the whole point of making a movie — the fun of it — is thinking it up and directing the characters in your mind … It seems to me like it’s somebody else’s idea if you didn’t write it; it’s like used goods. I mean, certainly, I think that there are great movies where directors didn’t write them, but for me that wouldn’t work.
Do you think we’re at a point where racist or homophobic humour, for example, is no longer offensive? And should it be?
No, I think it can be offensive. I guess if it’s a black joke, you have to be black; if it’s a gay joke, it helps if you’re gay. I don’t know — do I make racist jokes? Well, I’ve said, “Can you sleep with a racist if they’re cute enough?” and the answer is yes — but when they start talking you just go “la, la, la, la, la” so you can’t hear the stupid things they’re saying. And homophobia? I said that when Divine first met Richard Simmons, he felt homophobic. I guess I make jokes both ways, but I think they’re gentle jokes.
Do you think people look down on camp and kitsch humour? Do people consider it to be less sophisticated than other forms of humour?
I don’t even know. It seems to me that, in America, sex humour is what we do best. I mean, look at The Hangover; that’s a giant hit-movie and I’m sure those jokes would be thought of as sex jokes. I don’t know — camp humour? I don’t even know what that is anymore. I think camp became trash and then trash became filth, which has more of a punk edge. And I think, now, everybody’s used to that kind of humour; I think people are trying too hard to be sick or shocking and it’s not so funny. If you see the effort, it doesn’t work.
I read that you were into trepanation. Is that true, or is that a huge lie?
Well, I’m not into it … You know, somebody told me yesterday that they know someone that has it! I’ve always read about it; I don’t really want to get it. I think it would make a nice Christmas gift for certain people, but drilling a hole in my head is not something I plan to do this week — although I’m fascinated by someone that did. Like, does it really make you high forever? And what kind of high? And did you drill that hole yourself? Where do you go to get that done? Is it legal? The whole subject of it is horrifyingly funny to me.
I saw them do it on Doogie Howser once. Doogie was out camping with his dad and a fellow camper had pressure on the brain — so it was obviously more for medical reasons than for enjoyment — but he used a hand-powered drill.
Oh, God! In the old days it used to be the corkscrew or the [makes horrible sound] dentist drill or something. I don’t personally know anyone that’s had it. Is it illegal? I don’t know. Maybe I’ll save that for next time: “What’s the matter with you?” “Nothing, I’ve just had trepanation.”
My last question is: do you prefer Showgirls or Striptease?
Oh, definitely Showgirls. To me, Showgirls was amazing, you know. Showgirls was a classic. And the reason is because he [director Paul Verhoeven] meant it seriously; he didn’t mean it to be funny. And the other one, Striptease? I never saw it, to be honest … To me, though, Showgirls should win. For a camp classic, it’s way, way, way up there. But now you’ve made me want to go and watch it again and watch the other one, Striptease. How about Burlesque?
I haven’t seen Burlesque, was it good?
I haven’t seen that one either. I love Cher… but it was PG-13, so that scared me away [laughs]. How can you have a movie about strippers that children can see? I don’t get that.
Words: Ariane Halls
Photography: Tung Walsh
